A Heart That Beats for Home
Hey friend! I’m Nikki Smith—wife, mom of three, entrepreneur, and host of A Heart That Beats for Home. Over the years, God has used marriage, motherhood, business, and everyday life to stretch me, grow me, humble me, and draw me closer to Him. This space is a reflection of the journey I’m still on—growing, learning, and leaning into much-needed grace. I have a heart to keep investing intentionally in my marriage of 26 years with the man God has given me as a partner and best friend, to walk faithfully toward the season of empty nesting, and to grow deeper in relationship with my adult and soon-to-be adult children. More than anything, I’m passionate about drawing closer to my Heavenly Father—truly knowing Him in a way that is real and active in my everyday life—and reflecting Him in all my relationships, actions, and plans.
Each episode is a real, hope-filled conversation about the things that matter most: building strong families, walking faithfully in the gift of marriage, parenting intentionally through every stage, and keeping Christ at the center of it all. Alongside my own story, you’ll hear from amazing guests who share a deep passion for nurturing strong families where Jesus is glorified. Their wisdom, vulnerability, and encouragement will remind you that you’re not alone in this journey.
Whether you’re single, newly married, raising little ones, building a business, or walking through a new season, you’re welcome here. This is a space for women who love their families fiercely and want to lead with purpose—honoring God in the roles He has placed us in, faithfully shepherding the souls in our homes, and nurturing an environment that reflects the fruit of the Spirit and a life that glorifies Him.
One day at a time, may we become women who cultivate hearts that beat for home.
Thanks for being here,
Nikki
A Heart That Beats for Home
27. Creating Sacred Time and Space - Prioritizing Relationships Over Screen Time with Aro Co-Founder Joey Odom
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Have you ever found yourself missing out on life's precious moments because you were glued to your phone? In this compelling episode of A Heart that Beats for Home, we welcome Joey Odom, co-founder of Aro, who shares a deeply personal story about missing his son's first soccer goal due to phone distraction. Together, we examine the profound impact that technology has on family dynamics and the urgent need to be present in our children's lives. Joey's journey from that pivotal moment to co-founding Aro offers valuable lessons for all of us struggling to balance technology use with meaningful family interactions.
We also delve into the critical role parents play in modeling healthy phone habits for their children. Joey and I discuss the irony of parents' frustrations when their children mirror their own poor phone behaviors. The conversation highlights the importance of self-awareness and personal responsibility in setting a positive example. Joey introduces Aro, an innovative platform designed to help families manage their phone use more mindfully. With practical insights and relatable stories, we emphasize the importance of creating new habits to reclaim control over our technology use without inducing guilt.
In our discussion, we emphasize the transformative potential of reshaping our phone habits on relationships with our spouses, teenagers, and ourselves. By prioritizing relationships over screen time, we can foster genuine interactions and build stronger family bonds. Joey shares actionable steps like setting "sacred times" and "sacred places" to eliminate technology distractions and enhance family connections. The episode concludes with a powerful message: adopting a "stop at nothing" mindset to persevere through challenges and make meaningful changes in our family dynamics. Listen in for an episode filled with heartfelt insights and practical advice that could change the way you and your family interact with technology.
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Aro Blog: https://www.goaro.com/aro-the-blog
Aro Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-aro-podcast/id1665937884
Get your Aro Box here:
https://www.goaro.com/membership
Starting in August you can access the benefits of Aro from the App alone. Stay tuned for more details.
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Parenting in the Age of Technology
Speaker 1Hey friends , I'm Nikki Smith , your host here at A Heart that Beats for Home , the podcast where we're ditching filters and diving headfirst into the raw beauty of all things home . Now , I am no expert when it comes to this whole parenting and marriage dance . I'm simply a gal who's been riding the mom roller coaster for 22 years and a wife still untangling the mystery of it all 25 years after saying I do . My goal is to bring you unapologetically messy and boldly genuine conversations about cultivating strong families . We're gonna laugh , possibly cry , and straight talk about the joy and chaos that comes within the four walls that we call home . No judgment and certainly no perfection , just real talk from my heart , a heart that beats for home . Let's dive in .
Speaker 1Hello friends , welcome back to another episode here at A Heart that Beats for Home . I am so excited for today's episode and will tell you that , in all of the podcasts that I listen to , the one where I tend to take the most notes is when it comes to managing technology and just this world of trying to figure that all out . And as we've been navigating through this series on parenting , we are having this conversation over and over . And so today's guest , mr Joey Odom I am so excited to have with us . He is the co-founder of the RO Box am so excited to have with us . He is the co-founder of the Aro Box . I know you have probably seen me posting about this on social , but I'm super excited to have you guys hear it straight from Joey so that you can learn more about this company . So , joey , I'm just going to let you jump in and introduce yourself and tell us just a little bit about what is Aro and how did it come to be .
Speaker 2Yeah , nikki , thank you for having me . It's great to talk to you . Aro is something that was birthed out of just a series of technology failures between myself and my co-founder , heath Wilson , with him and his family , with me and my family , and it was one of these things where we just kept feeling this tension of technology . And the good thing this has been very comforting is us realizing that we're not alone , that this is kind of what it means to be a parent in 2024 . My son is 16 , my daughter is 14 . So we've grown up . You know , when my son was born , I didn't have a smartphone . 16 years ago , and then , a couple of years into his life , I got this thing and it just deluged me and I think everybody kind of feels this overwhelm . And so what our thought is and I can give you a little bit of a story of kind of that like the keystone moment , which was when my son was five , when Harrison was five again , he's 16 . Now he was playing his first soccer season and the long and short of it is he scores this first soccer goal . That was this brilliant moment . It was just this like wonderful thing where the crowd goes wild . See , everybody had scored a goal , except for him . This season . His coach lifts them up . But when Harrison turned to the sidelines to share the moment with me , all he saw was the top of my head , cause I was looking down at my phone and I had missed this , this huge moment there's only one first soccer goal , right and so I had missed this because I was looking at my phone and and , and Nikki , I don't know what I was looking at it . It could not have been important , but even if it were important , from his eyes all he saw was the top of my head , and so it could have been me rescuing a domestic terrorist organization you know , hostages from a domestic terrorist organization . It doesn't matter what it was , but he didn't know the difference .
Speaker 2So Heath and I both come to this resolution . We had this thought , like this relationship with our devices and then I use the word relationship very , very deliberately this relationship with my phone was getting in the way of all the most important relationships in our lives . So we said if we're feeling overwhelmed and everybody's feeling overwhelmed what if we could simplify this ? What if we could make it easy to solve the proximity piece of the equation ? Because that's the problem is , these phones are with us all the time , so what if we could solve that piece of it ? And so we've been on mission for the last , you know , five years to do that . I've been on the market for a couple of years with Auro . Auro is a platform . You mentioned the Auro box . The Auro app is a key component of that . The Auro app is actually available as a standalone as well . Coming in August , to where people can begin to really manage this tension they're feeling around their phones .
Speaker 1So I love that you mentioned that you have a 14 and 16 year old , because you are obviously in the thick of it and this is a conversation that , honestly , of all of the parenting issues you can talk about , all the hard things the drugs , the sex , the alcohol and it feels like they're kind of spotty conversations . Right , we have to be addressing them . But this phone one feels like it is so all-consuming in so many ways and you know those opportunities . Even , like you just said , you missed that first goal and it's these things that we can't get back . And it makes me think of a time when I had my . I have three kids 21 , 19 , and 14 . And I probably had a 12-year-old when I was starting to really navigate the phone , like you mentioned , and in the middle of her talking to me across the kitchen counter saying something , I heard a notification and instinct was to grab it and start playing that message and to look up and to see that look in her face and she said are you kidding me ?
Speaker 1You know just those moments where your kids reflect back to you some of these behaviors . And that's before she had a cell phone , so she wasn't even having any of these behaviors . And you talk about that relationship and I heard you say somewhere that 0% of people use their phones , who don't have them in their hand . And so having that situation happen , with your son , you and Heath getting together and kind of deciding to do this , leaving careers correct and jumping all in on this , what was the reaction around that ? And people thinking there's no cure to this , it's never going to help . I mean , what kind of has been the response ?
Speaker 2Well , there is an overall sense of resignation . When it comes from people on their phones , there's a little bit of this thought and even if maybe people aren't kind of saying it out loud , just thinking it , and even in just the micro ways that we talk about this , there's a sense of resignation that just says like , oh well , this is just what it's like now , this is what it's like to be a parent in 2024 . You know how teenagers are . This is how they are . They're hooked on their phones and I bet you anybody listening to the show probably feels the same way . I just fundamentally don't like that . I just kind of refuse to to resign to the fact that something is the way it's always going to be . So I just one , maybe just as a matter of principle , don't like that , and I think , as we've talked about it with people , there has been a general sense of hope that when they say , they say oh , oh gosh , yeah , I like that idea . But what's interesting about it , nikki and this is where the conversation I think needs to frame it a little bit differently it's like oh gosh , yeah , my kids are always on their phone . Oh , yeah , my spouse needs that . There's this , there's always
Modeling Healthy Phone Use for Families
Speaker 2.
Speaker 2It's such an easy thing , when it comes to technology , to look at those around us versus looking in a mirror and saying wait a second . And this is the real question for parents . This is the question that I dare you to ask yourself , because it's dangerous , whether your kids have a phone yet or not , no matter where they are . Just the question to ask yourself is do I want my kids to use their phones the way I'm using my phone ? Do I want them , because they are are going to mimic what we model ? The model when it comes to technology over the last 15 , 16 years , since smartphones have been out , is what we generally do .
Speaker 2Is we , as parents , model a bad relationship with our phones ? Just like you mentioned , our kids will be talking to us , we'll look at our phone , we'll be at the dinner table looking at it , we'll watch a family movie and we'll be looking at our phone . So we model this bad relationship with our phones . And then we give our kids a phone and they mimic what we model . Of course , because that's normal , right . They just , they just model , they just do the thing that they've seen us doing . So they mimic what we've modeled . And then the third M in this equation , we do something . Crazy is we get mad at our kids for mimicking what we've modeled , and that's just lunacy , that's crazy that we would do that . And so so the real issue for us is can we model a good relationship with our phone ? So the reaction from people has been oh gosh , yeah , my , my , I'd love for my kids to get better at this , or I'd love my spouse to get better at this .
Speaker 2But the real one , the people who are having sustainable results , who are beginning to shape the culture in their homes , are the ones who say , yeah , maybe I could do something about myself , maybe I could do something . We talked off air about Andy Stanley and everything always comes back to Andy . But Andy said when he did marriage counseling , he said he was terrible at it , but he said he had this exercise , he'd had people go through , he's talking about a problem and he would draw a circle and he would say to each person hey , I want you to draw the amount of the pie piece . That's your responsibility in this situation . He said no one would do that because we don't want to draw that , even if it's just a sliver of pie in there . That's for us to focus on and we can't focus on the rest of it . So I would say the people who are having the best results here , the people who are seeing the most fruit , the people who are taking the risk , are the self-aware ones who are saying . This begins with me , and I would encourage everybody listening .
Speaker 2This is a real and I know I'm not trying to be too affronting here .
Speaker 2But what if we stop blaming our spouses ? What if we stop blaming our kids ? And what if we said you know what ? I'm going to work on me for a little bit . And when I talk to dads , by the way , nikki , I really I get pretty direct with them . I'm like dude , don't you dare tell your wife to get off her phone again until you've gotten good at this , Don't you ? And even then , you're not going to mandate it I'm not , my wife doesn't when I , when I get into command none of that works , by the way but you dare blame your kids until you have established good principles . What's going to happen is people are going to actually like it when you change your own behavior and they're going to join you . That's how culture changes is they're going to join you when they see the fruit of what you're doing so if we can start with ourselves . That's one of our major principles is start with yourself and just , and you'll see what happens when you do that , when everybody begins to follow your lead .
Speaker 1It's funny , right , because I can think of so many times where I have been on the couch . You know , maybe a couple people are on a smartphone and you kind of I feel like I'm becoming hyper aware to it because I'm unhappy with some of the habits that I'm seeing in our home again starting with me and so you make that conscious decision to put your phone down and then immediately almost get mad that other people are on it right .
Speaker 1It's like , okay , I'm ready for relationship . Why isn't everybody else getting the clue ? And it's like three seconds ago I was scroll list and so that total conviction that it does start with us . So take me back a little bit . So for those that are listening that are not familiar at all with Aro , I know that for you guys , this isn't just about a product . I will real quickly say , though , as far as the product goes , as a interior designer , it is important that the product is beautiful , so I think a lot of moms need to hear that , they need to know that this is kind of like the upscale shoebox with technology , and so , again , also , ro is not anti-technology .
Speaker 1I know that this is part of life and it's trying to figure out how to navigate in a healthy way , moving forward , and so tell us a little bit just about , for somebody that's not familiar at all with what your platform does what is the RO box , how does it work and how is it ? This is , I think , something that I got . It was an aha switch for me when I heard you say it . Instead of always being sad and depressed about the trackers that are on our iPhones , that tell us you know you've spent this many hours and it feels so overwhelming and it feels just a lot of guilt and conviction , how you guys have kind of flipped that narrative into something that's really encouraging .
Speaker 2Yeah , so Auro , like you said , auro is a platform and it really begins and I know it's a little bit counterintuitive , but it begins with the Auro app and the Auro experience is what really drives the behavior . So the Auro app measures the amount of time that you are physically away from your phone , that your phone is , whether it's an Auro flip session that means that your phone is flipped over . Right now , my phone is sitting underneath this chair , flipped over , and I'm tracking the amount of time that I'm away from my phone , that I'm engaged in the podcast , and so when I'm done with that , actually I pre-tag it where it says I'm on a podcast . So I track all the amount of time that I'm on podcasts , or the amount of time I'm reading my Bible , or the time that I'm having family time , and so the RO app aggregates the way that we're using our time apart from our phones , and the reason why is because it feels really good to be away from your phone and to quantify and to measure things . This is how any change happens , right ? That's why these fitness trackers are so big is that we are gamifying effectively , the experience of doing something that we want to do . That makes us proud and pride is a really key distinguishing factor there . When we started beta testing RO , whenever people would spend time away from their phones and they would see on the app how much time they've been away from their phone , they all would say I'm really proud of myself .
Speaker 2So the RO platform begins with the RO app and the software that gamifies the experience of being away from your phone , and we have built that all on the backs of all the stuff that social media companies are using to keep us on our phones . We're doing that to get us off our phones . So that's one . And then the RO box is the companion to it and it's , by the way , again starting in August that will be an optional companion . Up to this point , you've had to have both of them together . But a lot of people say , like , what if I'm traveling ? What if I'm on the go ? Can I still have access to the RO platform without a box ? The answer is now yes , so you can also buy the RO Box separately , and what the RO Box does is it provides exactly what you say . It provides that tactile cue .
Speaker 2A beautiful thing . It's wife designed . It's wife approved . Don't worry , I had no part of the design , so you don't have to worry about that , because I would do something very ugly . But it's this beautiful thing that lives in your home and it's it's actually a charging box . It'll charge your phone when it's in there and it stands . It really is a physical representation of a family's values , what's important to them . So when you see the RO box , you say my family , the Odom family hey , the Odom family . We're present with one another . This is the gathering place for our phones when we're at home .
Speaker 2And the thing I'll add to all of this is RO really is designed for families . When it comes to screen time , by the way , the digital wellness category is really growing , but most of these things are designed for individuals by individual focus , or me being that you had the parental control app to control my kids . This is something that's a unifier that brings everybody together . And , what's interesting too , we thought that the families who would adopt Aro would largely look like ours , that my , you know I have teenagers . Heath and his wife , they have teenagers . But what's really happened is it's been for people who largely it's been for other people who have young kids , who want to get ahead of it , who want to model a good relationship with them . So the Auro platform . That's a long way of explanation , but it begins with the Auro app that gamifies the experience of spending time away from your phone , and the companion Auro box , if you would like , the physical device that holds and charges your phones .
Speaker 1I love that you're saying that this is younger families that are getting it and that you've mentioned again in that modeling right when you're , when you're handing a phone to a child and say , hey , go plug this in for dad .
Speaker 1So that we can have this conversation , or we can watch this movie , or we can have this meal . Just that . That , that muscle memory of this is what it looks like to disconnect , so much more powerful than flipping it over on the dining room table while you're eating or just setting it on the counter . And I know that you have said that environment is more important than willpower and kind of explain just a little bit about that and how you guys because you think , well , everything's just willpower , but I have a really , really high willpower . I like to believe in a lot of areas , and when that phone is within arm's reach , something happens to willpower . That , with our phones , doesn't seem to work .
Speaker 2Well , what's interesting also is that the science shows us that the mere presence of our phone equals usage of our phone , because we are anticipating something happening from our phone . So even if the , by the way , even if the notifications are off , we're wondering what's happening with our phone . So if we could just create a little bit of a barrier ? So again , the RO app itself . So when you're in an RO flip session , you flip your phone over , you know that you are in a session , so it almost creates an invisible barrier around it . I like to put even a piece of paper over it whenever , just to not see it . That's a big deal . The RO box obviously has it full , you know , physically contained , even though there's not like a lock or anything on it . But we all kind of know this about environment and willpower , know this about environment and willpower . And if we're reliant on willpower all the time , without the environment that compliments it , it will give out every single time . And that's from James Clear on Atomic Habits . So if we can't rely on willpower and I would I would go a step further and say it's unnecessary to to rely on our willpower . Why would we try to do that ? You know what I mean , why would we try to gut this thing out ? You know , if I'm trying to , if I'm trying to avoid sweets all day long , I'm not going to carry chocolate cake with me , right ? I'm not going to carry a Snickers bar in my back pocket because at some point , no matter how strong I am , I'm going to say , gosh , I need , I need to buy the Snickers bar . So it's , it's almost a little bit silly what we're doing . And when it comes to our phones , it's a little bit more nuanced , right , because we actually need our phones for a lot of things . A lot of people need it for work . Our phones are very helpful . You know , moms we talked to a bunch of moms . Moms run the house from their phones . They want to know if the cool nurse calls they , all this stuff . So that's good , right , so .
Speaker 2But what we're talking about are those moments where you really intend to be fully present in another place . You really intend to be fully present for dinner , or hey , we're going to , we're going to do play a game together , or we're going to have a conversation . If my daughter comes up to me Nikki again , she's 14 years old and if she's struggling with something , the last thing I want to do is phone snub her in the middle of that conversation . That kills her willingness to be , to be close to me or to open up with a deep conversation and open her heart up a little bit . So that's the last thing I want to do . So I need to remove that phone because it's because at that point I will be exercising unnecessary willpower when environment will do it for me .
Transforming Relationships Through Phone Habits
Speaker 2So and this is this is going to sound so basic , but the proximity is where this all begins and to really make this simple , we've just developed over the last 16 years this habit that says our phones need to be with us all the time . We don't have . We don't do that with our keys , we don't do that with with anything else . Right , everything else has a home except for our phones . So what if we reshape that habit ? But in hearing that , I know that sounds so basic and it's the comparable . I think the best comparable we can find is exercise that you can go , burn calories and build muscle for free . You can do pushups on your own , you can run around the neighborhood on your own , you can do all of those things for free .
Speaker 2But most of us belong to gyms , because it's kind of hard to keep that as a daily practice .
Speaker 2So we look for help , we seek help to remove the friction of doing something difficult but valuable we have deemed as a society .
Speaker 2Physical fitness is important , so we go to whatever extremes we need to , whatever measures we need to to maintain physical fitness . We have to have the same mindset when it comes to our phones , because this is and everybody listening here , I think , will agree with this this , getting this relationship with our phones right is the prerequisite to every other good thing we want in our life . It doesn't guarantee it , it doesn't guarantee I'm going to have a great relationship with my daughter , but it is a prerequisite because when she's in the middle of a conversation , if I phone snub her , that kills the relationship , that kills the moment , right . So this is the prerequisite . This is kind of the entry cost to get in and then we have to go do all the other things , but we absolutely can't do it as long as we have this thing with us . So this is the prerequisite to every good thing we want in our lives relationally , and so we need to begin to take whatever extreme measures we have to to get it right .
Speaker 1It's so crazy when , exactly what you just said , that that is the root of so many things , when I look at my own life and I think I want to sleep more , I want to be more consistent in how I work out , I want to invest more in my relationships , and when you track those things back and you say what are the things or the thing that's keeping me from progressing in those areas , almost every single one will go back to phone usage scrolling at night .
Speaker 1So I'm tired , so I sleep past you know when I should be , and it's just this ripple effect of just creating these habits and again , kind of going back to what you said about , instead of saying you know to tell your spouse to put their phone away or tell your kids especially starting this with older kids I really , again , if you are listening and you have young kids , I mean I can't think if there is a redo that I could have as a parent , and I feel like we have to give ourselves a lot of grace because we're kind of that first generation of parents that had to figure out raising kids and even just reading a statistic getting ready for this interview , showing that the average teenager is spending seven hours and 22 minutes a day on their screens and tweens that you know , eight to 12 year olds , are spending the average of five in front of screens , and whether that's just a phone or that's phones and TV and video games and I know how quick time goes with our kids and I'm sure you would say the same .
Speaker 1It's like you snap your fingers and they were toddlers and now they're these kids that are getting ready to fly and just wanting to model that myself . And so what are ways that , when you look at your family and you're the co-founder of this , so you're all in on it but what are ways that you have seen tangibly this change relationship or improve relationship in your own home ?
Speaker 2Yeah Well , I . My favorite story of of late is comes from my daughter , Gianna , who I've mentioned a couple of times , who's 14 . So on May 8th 2020 , and I know this because I read it in my journal about a month and a half ago , may 8th 2020 , gianna and I watched a movie together , and so Gianna would have been four years ago , so she would have been 10 years old . We watched a movie together and at the end of it she turned to me and she said without , this was not , she wasn't judging me and she also wasn't congratulating me . She was saying a statement of fact . She said dad , did you know , that's the first time we've watched a movie and you haven't had your phone , which kind of was a gut punch in a way like . In a way it was . It was like gosh , have I gotten this wrong for 10 years ? And , to even pull a little bit deeper , we'd never talk about that
Raising Kids in a Digital World
Speaker 2.
Speaker 2But she had noticed and I want everybody to know this about your kids , whether they're saying it or not . Our kids are noticing machines . They have been designed to notice . And what do they do with their notice ? They notice and then they adapt . They notice , then they adapt . Their sweet little brains have this neuroplasticity . That's kind of reshaping their brains all the time so they can adapt to their environment . That's worth actually pausing on for a second . That's a huge , huge responsibility . It's also a huge opportunity . We can do something amazing with that .
Speaker 2So she had learned at age 10 that when she and I are doing something that's important to her , I'm on my phone . That kind of sucked a little bit , but it was actually kind of cool because I realized that I had done something that was big for me , that it took me 10 years . I had never done that . That was a big deal for me to spend time away from my phone , and so you know that made me do . I felt actually kind of good about it , even though it was a little bit of a gut punch . I couldn't wait till we watched another movie and so I could do it again , because I knew she would notice that also .
Speaker 2So I told Gianna this story after I read it in my journal . This was again about a month ago . She's 14 now and I told her that story and she laughed and she said Dad , she said that would be so weird if you were on your phone during a movie now . So , nikki , think about that . Did it happen overnight ? No , it started with a little drip and four years later , what's normal to her has completely changed . What's normal to her has completely changed and I'll take it even a step further . Her expectations of a relationship have changed . So let's think she goes out on a date in a few years and the boy sitting across the table is looking at his phone all throughout dinner . You know what she's probably going to do . She's going to say , hey , pay for my surf and turf , we're not going out again , right ? So she's so . She knows , in a relationship , this is what she should expect .
Speaker 2So again back to it felt kind of crappy at first whenever I heard that , but again , the opportunity is bigger than than the you know , than than the feeling bad . I could have wallowed in that and just gone back to it and be like , oh well , I guess this is who I am , I'll always have my phone . Or instead , you say , what if we change this ? And so what's cool about that ? And we hear stories all the time , and I bet you , if you talk to somebody with young kids , they'll have a similar story to this of their kids saying mommy , daddy , no phone . Mommy , look at me , daddy , look at me .
Speaker 2These , all these moments and that doesn't feel that great in the moment when our three-year-old , four-year-old are telling us to put down our phones . But if somebody's listening can relate to that , I want you to actually celebrate that . And here's why there are two reasons why we should celebrate those moments when our kids correct us . The first one is that means that your kid likes you , that they're . They wouldn't say , put down your phone and look at me if they didn't actually like you . So that's a good thing . We want our kids
Prioritizing Relationships Over Phone Usage
Speaker 2to like us .
Speaker 2And the second thing I think is even more powerful is that our kids think they're worthy of being looked at . If they're telling you mommy , daddy , put down your phone and look at me , you know what they're saying . They're saying I'm more important than your phone . So than your phone , so put that stupid thing down . Now we have to get really , really nervous when our kids stop asking that , because over time that means that they might not think that anymore . They might think , no , the phone actually is more important than me , so why would I even ask ? So we got to watch it . When we stop hearing that question . But if you've heard that question , that statement from your kid . That's a wonderful thing . That means your kid likes you and they believe they're worth being looked at , so we should celebrate that . And now you can go capitalize on that .
Speaker 2And the last thing I'll say about all this this is easy to hear me talking about it and hear self-righteousness , and it's easy to hear talking about well , yeah , you have a company that does this . Of course , you're good at it . I had to quit a career that I was in for almost 20 years to go pursue this because I was so bad at it . So there was no , there is nobody who was worse than I am , and the fact that the fact that I can tell any stories of accomplishment or celebration here is an absolute miracle . And because I can and because I've heard from thousands and thousands of other people who have seen the life change through RO and this is not a commercial for RO this is for you to go do something about it in your own life . I guarantee you it can happen in yours as well , and no matter where you are . I also promise it's not too late .
Speaker 1Noticing machines . That's powerful . That's powerful and I love that you pointed out when they stop asking that's when you really need to be concerned , and I think we can take those comments as well . Good grief , guys like I've got to do this and we can glorify the things that we're using our phone , for I know I'm guilty of that . I work from home . I run this business from my phone .
Speaker 1Like you know , there's so many things that , intuitively , we want to fight back with or it's my camera , every single thing that we can justify as good things that we need to be doing , but how that can so steal the intimacy out of the interactions and just I mean that's just .
Speaker 1It's such good stuff to think about . How has it impacted your relationship in your marriage and just how you interact when it's just you and your wife . Is it Kristen ? Is that correct when you guys are out together ? How has that changed ? And I appreciate you saying like I was the worst of sinners in this and I think that's encouraging to so many of us . This is something in life that can feel very overwhelming at times , because it is kind of like you have the drug next to you all the time and just creating that separation by starting that RO session or putting it in the box how that starts to disconnect some of those habits you talk about the difference between a bad habit and an addiction and that you feel the phone is more of a bad habit , not an addiction .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , I'll touch on that real quick , and that's an important distinction that this is . There are things on our phone that have addictive characteristics , no doubt . But when scientists and researchers look at it , the mass of people are not addicted to their phones . There's no . They don't have physical withdrawals for the most part when they're away from their phones . They don't have long-term , certainly long-term addictive withdrawals when they come to their phones . So this actually mimics a little bit more of compulsive behavior than addictive behavior .
Speaker 2Reason , in kind of plain speak , for us is I think that's important because if , when we , when we look at something as an addiction , there's a certain sense of resignation in it that says I can't do anything about it , first step in a 12 step addictive addiction program is to say I'm completely powerless over this thing . And so when it comes to addiction that just we just are telling ourselves we can't do anything about it , that we're completely powerless . But when we look at something as a habit , we'll say I can do anything about it , that we're completely powerless , but we look at something as a habit , we'll say I can do something about a habit . In fact , when I say , even as I'm saying that I feel myself kind of sit up straighter , pull my shoulders back and say well , I can handle a habit , right , I can do something about that . So I think that distinction in our minds I'd encourage people listening to just not say anymore I'm addicted to my phone , which is funny because we kind of laugh about that . We can kind of say you know , I'm so addicted to my phone which is funny because we kind of laugh about that . We can kind of say you know , I'm so addicted to my phone , as if we would laugh about any other real addiction . You'd be like oh , you know me , I'm always neglecting my kids because of this heroin . Right , like you would . You would never do that when it's a real addiction , and so I'd encourage us to stop using that language as well . That's actually sending a very're addicted to our phones . Let's get rid of that language and then in your own mind say this is a habit that I can do something about .
Speaker 2But when it comes to my marriage , I would say that putting down my phone has solved everything . We haven't had a bad day since . Of course , that's a lie , right , marriage is hard . We've been married for 20 years . It is a very difficult thing . Completely apart from phones . You have things you're trying to reconcile to people's personalities to be in accordance on the majority of issues . That's really really hard and I would propose to you that it's impossible when you have this thing in between you .
Speaker 2The Gottman Institute has a study that said that successful couples who remain married turn towards their partner's bids for emotional connection 86% of the time , while couples who didn't make it , couples who did get divorced , only turn towards their partner's bids for emotional connection 33% of the time . And these bids for emotional connection , these are really subtle . They can be super , super subtle . Little things like when was the last time we went on a walk ? Just some little . That's not saying will you go on a walk with me tonight ? That's just a little bit gosh . It's been , it feels like it's been a month since we've gone on a walk . That's your partner hoping that you , that you take the bait there , hoping that you take the bait and say you know why don't we go on a walk tonight ? But it's physically and it's emotionally impossible to turn towards anything like that , to turn towards especially these subtle bits for connection when we have our phones with us .
Speaker 2So I would say that this , and even a step further . Let's even forget divorce statistics . I believe we're in an intimacy crisis . In our country I believe we have this . I mean , you can't like judging the health of your marriage by am I divorced or am I married ? That's not a real good barometer for success in a marriage , but intimacy levels are , and I believe this is eroding our intimacy . And when I say intimacy , I'm not talking sexual , I'm just talking or I'm talking us being fully seen , fully known , fully loved , right this , this , this ability to to look in the eyes of your partner and have a conversation that's meaningful to you . That's the intimacy , that's that's what we all want . That's the intimacy . That's that's what we all want . That's why we get married is to be close with somebody else . It's not fun all the times in the process of getting it becoming intimate . You know that process of showing your heart and hearing criticism or whatever it may be . So I would say that again . Back to that . That's kind of on the macro level .
Speaker 2For me personally , the difference in the moments that Kristen and I have is absolutely dramatic . So let's take a walk again . When we go on our evening walk after dinner , we go on a walk . I don't bring my phone with me and I know that sounds small . That doesn't guarantee a great conversation , but I can . I promise you that is no . There's no quicker way to derail that conversation . And , by the way , I've never missed an important call . I've not missed the text that couldn't wait . It's all these things that I've realized over time as I'm away from my phone . I didn't actually need it for that 42 minutes that we were on our walk . So there's a good chance and I'm not trying to be dramatic Like there's a good chance If not for this change in our life , we wouldn't have made it , because it's that dire .
Speaker 2And I think , as we as a society look at this issue , I think we do have to realize how absolutely dire this is for us to make a change and for us to get it right . And I'm glad that I had some mistakes along the way . That led me to the point of saying something needs to change . And for those who have had those mistakes , I way that led me to the point of saying something needs to change . And for those who have had those mistakes , I love that you said show yourself a little bit of grace . But show yourself a little bit of grace and then go do something about it . Again . That was Jesus's way , right , you know , he said . He said hey , you're forgiven . You know the thing about the woman who's about to get stoned ? He rescued her , he took care of her , and then what'd he say ? He said now go sin no more , right ? So grace and then truth . Grace and then truth for those of you . Give yourself some grace , but also , now go do something about it .
Speaker 1Yeah , I recently heard somebody describe intimacy as into me , you see , and I thought that was so powerful and when you think about that with phone use and our marriages .
Speaker 1It is impossible for me to see into my spouse or into my kids when I'm staring at my phone . And just that level of just I know you've referenced it the power of even a gaze to a phone or a conversation where somebody just flips it over just to check real quick . You know they try to be sly about it and it's just the loss of even just that eye connection .
Speaker 1It's an instant break of that intimacy , and so I think so much of what you're talking about is such a great visual picture to that intimacy being into me , you see , and how fixing that and putting the phone in the RO box or whatever .
Speaker 1Real quick . To wrap this up , two things . Number one one of the coolest things about the app and the RO box and all the things is that you get to track how you're spending your time away . I know you mentioned that , like right now , yours says podcast , and when I pick that up and it's funny how , when I started , I would sometimes be so proud of myself that I had had that RO session and you kind of look because for listeners that aren't familiar with it , it will send notifications to other people in your family .
Speaker 1So it's a very subtle way of encouraging without having to use words Like mom has plugged into the RO box , Do you want to join ? And sometimes immediately somebody follows and plugs in . Other times nobody does , and it's also managing your own feelings and just being the example . And in the beginning I would feel so proud of myself and I would go check it and I would get this notification Joey , you haven't been disconnected long enough to count the session . It hasn't even been three minutes , right , and so just then getting longer and longer . But then when you're done , you get to put how you spent that time and so you can track those things Family dinner , walk with my spouse , quiet time . You can make your own categories . Whatever it is , and it's that reverse psychology instead of being sad and depressed about something that feels overwhelming to just say and again , you talked about the atomic habits , there's so many great books on these things .
Speaker 1But compound effect and when you think , okay , if I do this one hour a week with my family where I'm just unplugging , that's 52 hours in a year of intentional time and you hope that that builds and becomes more and more and you see that progress , so that's just such a cool , a cool way to
Building Connection With Teenagers
Speaker 1track . But what would you say ? We've talked about the families that are the young families that are now starting to model what they want the kids to mimic , hopefully so that there's less periods of being mad . What would you say to a family that's maybe with kids our age right now that feels this is totally out of control ? It's teenagers , they already have the phone , the damage is done , it is what it is . I know you speak into the fact of it's not . It's not being mean . It's actually OK At this stage when you have high schoolers who the phone is their life and a parent says no more , like we can't keep doing this .
Speaker 1We're losing too much intimacy , we're losing too much relationship and we have to start now . How does a family tackle that ? In your opinion , with what you've seen ?
Speaker 2I , I encourage people . So we had a one of our friends from Praxis got by the name of Scott Kaufman . I love how he said this . He said when your kids are young , the stakes are high and the pain is low . And when your kids get older , the stakes are high and the pain is high . So , going into it , you got to know , on getting this right , you got to know that it's the pain might be a little bit high and I would encourage parents with teenagers to set your goals very , very small to begin with . We're talking about the very small thing . If we're looking at solving this overnight , it's just not going to happen . You are in for a world of frustration there . But if you began very , very small and you establish we encourage people to establish sacred times and sacred places in their homes . So a sacred time could be dinner time , a sacred place could be the living room couch and just establish some of those very , very small things and find small moments like that .
Speaker 2I think that our kids no , I know this about our kids Our kids , no matter their age 15 , 16 , 17 years old they were designed for connection , that their hearts . I fully believe this will come to life with connection . Now they are , they may not be used to that they have . They have to know that the world is more beautiful outside of their screen , and that's that's a hard thing to know . The fact that we're saying , you know it's interesting as we talk about this , our phones being with us all the time it's not necessarily inherently bad , right , it's just . It's just it's it's getting in the way of our relationship . So , kids , I believe we'll begin to see that the world is more beautiful outside of their phones , but it may take a while . So I'd encourage you to look at it as building a muscle and just begin small .
Speaker 2So the first step and here's one that will be painful , this is a bandaid rip . We got to get them out of their , out of their rooms at night . That's I mean , if they're , if I were to give one prescription when it comes to kids and they may hate you for it it's gotta be out of their rooms at night . That is the greatest form of torture , still , after all these years . The greatest form of torture is sleep deprivation , and that's what you know . All the terrorist organizations use the sleep deprivation . That's more , that's , that's more effective than waterboarding . So we can't voluntarily enter into sleep deprivation for our kids . Let's get out of there . Let's get out of the rooms at night . That's one that's a bandaid rip .
Speaker 2The second one is a little bit more voluntary , a little bit more of a of an invitation , which is hey , it's dinner time , let's put our phones over there . Let's all put our phones in order . We're just going to try this out . Or , hey , we're . Hey , we got it where you're . Let's say you go to dinner . This is a fun one . My friends and I do this . We go on like a guy's trip . We'll all exchange phones at dinner . Instead of even placing them on the middle , we'll just exchange phones so that everybody has someone's phone that's not theirs .
Speaker 2Begin with stuff like that , and then what happens afterwards ? What happens afterwards ? Don't teach lessons and don't like dispense wisdom . What if you had some conversation starter cards ? What if you knew that ? They're into , they're watching this ? Maybe a dated reference , but you know they're watching stranger things . Hey , what's happening in season two of stranger things right now ? Enter into their world a little bit more and make it an enjoyable experience , and I bet you don't want to start coming back to that Heck . Even introduce a family game night . Hey , let's do this .
Speaker 2We'll put our phones over here , but begin with those small goals . Don't look to solve the seven hours of screen time . Look to solve that moment's worth of it . This is all easier said than done , and I want you to , and I want to encourage you look at this over time , and this is going to be even harder , and I struggle with this too . Celebrate those offscreen moments and watch your criticism of the onscreen moments . That's a tough one too . We're so busy , we're so frustrated that we're just we , we nag , we nag , we nag , we nag . Versus let's celebrate when the good things happen , versus criticizing when the things don't quite happen that you want .
Speaker 1Joey , every time that I listen to you speak or just having this conversation , it's this really healthy balance of conviction but also a lot of encouragement because I think every one of us can look at technology again , though you're saying own it .
Speaker 1I'm not going to say all of us . I'm going to say I can look at my own life and say there's areas where I'm doing a lot better with it , but there's still even owning the RO box . There's still so many times where you can say , well , if nobody else is going to put it in , I'm not going to , and it's like no , I want .
Speaker 1the story that you shared with your daughter of the norm being just so radically different in four years that in four years , maybe it's not my kids that are sitting on the couch , but it's the grandchildren , Right and just . There's always the ability to make changes in a positive way and statistics show , right that the phone usage is becoming more and more demanding part of our day and that we are the ones that are going to have to take ownership . It's not going to be done for us . This is one that how it controls us will be decided by the phone if we don't make a conscious decision , and so I'm just so encouraged .
Speaker 1Talking to you , I know so many parents are going to be encouraged . I always say , no matter what stage of parenting you're in , no matter what it is , it's never . The ship has never completely left harbor . There is always time , even as I have adult children , they will still notice when mom is making positive change , when mom is being disciplined and that encourages them as adults , and so I don't want anybody listening to think you know the ship .
Speaker 1the ship has sailed . It's too far gone . This is something that we have to be passionate about , and we have to make it a priority .
Speaker 2It's . It's . It is so dire and I mean that when I say dire , it's not like oh , that's not like we're , you know , like I don't . That's not doom and gloom that this is one of the . This is the topic . I believe that we have to take heed of it's we hear it all the time and just take a step today , Again , we know that Aura will make a difference , but I don't care if you join Aura or not , if you can make positive change for yourself . So it's one that I believe , and I'll just leave it with this . We talk about start , stop . This is a big thing for us . Start with yourself that we already said that and stop at nothing to make progress . Keep , just stop at nothing .
Speaker 2And you said you mentioned your adult children . How great of a compliment would it be if you were to hear them talk to their friends . And you know something I love about my mom she is always looking to get better . She's always , she never is so stuck in her ways that she she's not stubborn about it . If you say , hey , mom , you're on your phone too much , she always goes and works at it . That's the kind of parent I want to be . That's the kind of parent I want to be . That's the kind of parent I admire .
Speaker 2When I hear someone like that that says like , yeah , my dad is , you know , I'm 44 for my kid , my kids say , like no matter how , my dad's 44 , but he just keeps working on himself , he keeps trying to improve and get better every day , that's the person I want to be , that's the person I admire , and we have to take this so seriously that we will stop at nothing to get it right .
Speaker 2It's that important . It is the prerequisite to everything good we want in our lives , and you mentioned that the balance we hold out this is yes , there's a lot that we can get down about here , but I fully believe this is the greatest opportunity we have as parents . I believe this is the greatest opportunity we have as spouses . This is the greatest opportunity we have as friends . If we can get this right , it will make such a noticeable difference , and so that's why I am hopeful about it . That's why I am positive about it , because I believe that culture is waking up to it , and I believe we're going to see a dramatic change in the years ahead as people begin to personalize this for themselves .
Speaker 1Love that . Well , I know you're not doing a hard push for the RO box , but I'm going to do it hard for you . This is something that I believe it's just one of those things . It's the whole environment , willpower , and I have tried and tried and tried , and the phone navigates back to my bedside table or whatever . And so , friends , if you're listening , we'll make sure that we in the show notes , put all the different places .
Speaker 1Ro has the most amazing blog . It's at goarocom , it's G-O-A-R-Ocom . I mean the wealth of information that are in your blog posts . It is a parenting resource in and of itself . Go follow them on Instagram . They also have a podcast that you can listen to , and we are just so grateful that you are here . Our passion here is cultivating strong families , and I believe that without this part figured out and as a core element that we're focusing on as parents , we won't cultivate strong families , and so we just are so grateful to have you here . Thank you for taking the time to be here with us , joey . It means a ton . Any last final words that you have ?
Speaker 2The thing that I would say is don't wait for tomorrow , Don't wait to get it perfect . Just start today . Start with five minutes today , physically distant from your phone . Don't don't wait for it all everything to align , Just begin . Just start today . Start very small . You're building a muscle . It doesn't have to get better overnight and you can do it . This is something that you can do . I know it feels overwhelming , but you got to begin with one small step and I believe you can do that today .
The Power of 'Stop at Nothing
Speaker 1Friends , I don't know about you , but my screensaver is going to change today and it's going to say stop at nothing . I think that is such a great charge . It's a great hashtag . Stop at nothing Feels overwhelming , but just keep trying . I encourage you to share this episode with all of your friends , because , no matter what age children they have , this is an important message that we need to be talking about . So be sure to share this podcast , whether that be on your social channels or just through a text . And until we see you next week , friends , take care .