A Heart That Beats for Home
My journey as a wife and mom has been an incredible source of growth and learning, and I'm thrilled to share the insights I've gained with you through this podcast. Each episode is a heartfelt exploration of what truly makes a house feel like a home, drawing from my own experiences and the valuable lessons I've gathered along the way.
Whether you've been a parent for years, are embarking on the adventure of newlywed life, or are navigating the beautiful complexities of family dynamics, I hope you'll discover something meaningful here.
Throughout our conversations, we'll delve into topics such as parenting, marriage, achieving harmony between work and home life, fostering thriving relationships, and infusing faith into our daily experiences. My goal is to create a welcoming space where we can come together, share our stories, and offer support as we journey towards building strong and loving families.
I extend a heartfelt invitation for you to walk alongside me on this journey of growth and exploration, resonating with the rhythm of "A Heart That Beats for Home." Together, we can flourish and learn as we delve into the depths of parenthood, marriage, and the essence of family life.
A Heart That Beats for Home
56. Navigating Anxiety and Finding Joy with Olivia Smith
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What happens when fiery mother-daughter personalities collide under one roof during the college years? Nikki Smith and her 20-year-old daughter Olivia pull back the curtain on navigating this delicate transition with raw honesty that will resonate with any parent of young adults.
Olivia, currently balancing nursing school with weekend hospital shifts that fully cover her tuition, shares her journey from a kindergartener with severe separation anxiety to a confident nursing student finding her way. Their conversation explores the unique challenges of having an adult child living at home – where parents must thread the needle between respecting growing independence while maintaining appropriate boundaries.
Mental health takes center stage as both mother and daughter candidly discuss Olivia's experiences with anxiety and depression. From the exhaustion of an overthinking mind that "feels like running a marathon mentally every single day" to practical strategies like gratitude journaling and therapeutic conversations, they offer wisdom born from years of trial and error. Parents will find tremendous value in Nikki's admission that she had to move from a "get over it" mentality to learning how to validate feelings first – "I'm sure that feels extremely overwhelming" – before problem-solving together.
Educational paths form another fascinating thread as they discuss Olivia's journey through various school environments before finding her perfect fit in homeschooling. Their experience demonstrates how allowing children to find their best learning environment – sometimes against conventional wisdom – can transform academic struggles into success.
The episode concludes with heartfelt advice from Olivia to her younger self and others battling similar challenges: "Don't let your anxiety and depression become who you are." This powerful reminder that we are more than our mental health struggles offers hope to listeners in similar situations. Join us next week as this intimate conversation continues, exploring Olivia's gift for relationships and building connections.
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Hey friends, I'm Nikki Smith, your host here at A Heart that Beats for Home, the podcast where we're ditching filters and diving headfirst into the raw beauty of all things home. Now, I am no expert when it comes to this whole parenting and marriage dance. I'm simply a gal who's been riding the mom roller coaster for 22 years and a wife still untangling the mystery of it all 25 years after saying I do. My goal is to bring you unapologetically messy and boldly genuine conversations about cultivating strong families. We're gonna laugh, possibly cry, and straight talk about the joy and chaos that comes within the four walls that we call home. No judgment and certainly no perfection, just real talk from my heart, a heart that beats for home. Let's dive in. Hello friends, welcome back to another week here on the podcast at A Heart that Beats for Home, excited to have you here with us for another Thursday, super excited today about my guest.
Speaker 1:Right now I am sitting on my master bedroom floor under a blanket with my sweet daughter, olivia Smith. Olivia is our middle daughter, our 20-year-old, and she is going to be joining us today. You have already heard from our oldest daughter, madison, last summer, when she talked about just our journey of navigating, sending a child off to college, and Olivia and I today are just going to have a conversation about quite a few different things. Going to talk about some emotions, talk about our relationship as mother-daughter, and then also navigating having an adult child who is living at home while attending college. So just going to have some fun conversation today with one of my favorite people in the world, my sweet girl Olivia. So, olivia, tell us just a little bit about you and what you're up to these days.
Speaker 2:Hi, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Yeah, so, like you said, I'm 20 years old, I'm in college, I'm in nursing school in my first semester, so that's been an adjustment figuring out how to do that and do that Well. I'm in nursing school in my first semester, so that's been an adjustment figuring out how to do that and do that well. I'm also working as a CNA at the hospital while I'm in school and I love to do all things with plants. I love plants, flowers, all those sorts of things, and I try to find time to do things regarding plants and flowers when I can and when I'm not doing school or just getting in the dirt with my hands. I love it very much Awesome.
Speaker 1:So she said she's in her first semester of nursing school. But she is a junior in college, already did her two years of prereqs for nursing school, just transitioned into the actual two years of the nursing program to get her BSN here in what about 18, 19 months? She'll be grabbing that and is in a really awesome program right now where there is a local hospital OSF hospital here in town is doing a grant program where if you work for them you get your entire tuition paid for. So she is working super hard in both school and work. She's working a 12-hour shift either on Saturday or Sunday to get her college completely paid for. So we are so excited for her and just the way that she is setting herself up for success. And, like she said, you walk into her room and it's basically a greenhouse. I don't have a green thumb at all, but Olivia can propagate and plant and keep all those plants alive. She often pulls me in to come see new leaves, new growth, teaches me about all the plants, so it's super fun to watch her kind of take on that passion. She's definitely our crafty, creative girl and just such a joy. Ironically, her middle name is Joy and that is not by coincidence, because she is a pure joy, but Olivia has agreed to talk really honestly. I think we'll start a little bit.
Speaker 1:Olivia, you and I are wired very similarly. If we took everybody in our family, I think you and I are very similar. Dad and Maddie are very similar and Landon, I think, is a good combination of the both of us, but that has been awesome at times, us having so many similarities. It's also been something we've had to really work through and navigate, especially as you're getting older and trying to give space for you to figure out life. What would you say are some of the ways that you and I have learned to navigate? We can both be fiery and feisty and have strong opinions, but I think we've gotten through some rough patches to get to a place that we do have a mutual respect for each other. What would you say has been your experience now being an adult living in our home?
Speaker 2:I would say, yeah, it definitely was an adjustment and a phase. We had to get through some rocky points, I think, to get to where we are now. But I think it all just revolved around finding the balance of what's an appropriate relationship or appropriate boundaries between you know, still being your daughter and still living in your home and still having you as my authority, but also being an adult and in college. And I think we truly just had to figure out what was the middle ground there. What could we make?
Speaker 2:I don't want to say rules, but what can we put into place where it's, I'm still experiencing independence, like I am in college, you know, because if I was away at college it'd be completely different. So I think, still acknowledging that I am in college, I am an adult, but also I'm living in your home, and I think we had to just figure out how to make that work and how for me to still respect you as my mother and still, you know, obey you at the end of the day, because I am in your home and that's going to look differently living here than it would if I live somewhere else. And I would say we're still working on it and it's not perfect, but I think we've worked through different challenges and figured out what works best for us to better communicate through that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is definitely a different situation when you send a child off to college. Obviously, for moms listening, if you send a kid off to college, you can kind of give them guidance, and then there's a lot that you just don't know. You're not involved in the day-to-day, maybe in some of the choices they make, even in silly things. I know for you and I, one that we went back on all the time was I had strong opinions about what a study environment should look like and you had very different study environment ideas. But I would never know what environment Maddie is choosing to study and when she's away at college, because she has her own space, she doesn't have me seeing every decision that she's making. I don't know when she's waking up and when she's going to bed and if she's studying sitting at a kitchen table or on a couch or in a bed. And just having to navigate through some of those things and letting you I think a big part of it too is me deciding to shut my mouth and let you, in a lot of it, figure out what works and what doesn't, because as parents we do want to have a lot of strong opinions of this is the right way to do it. But just remembering that we, you know, I have said to many people that when I talk to you now, I'm talking to you from somebody who's 47 years old, wanting you to maybe respond in a way that I would respond now as a 47 year old. But we often forget as parents that if we take a step back and we go back to our 20 year old selves, we were probably doing a lot of things that we would think, oh, maybe I would do that differently now. But letting you kind of have that experience.
Speaker 1:So what would you say is your favorite part, because kids have different ideas. Some kids want to, I guess, back up, even a little farther. What made you decide that you wanted to stay local and not go away for college? Every kid is so different. Maddie knew she wanted to go away. Landon is still not sure what he wants to do. You knew you wanted to stay at home. What was that decision process for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think a lot of different factors played into that. I used to not even want to go to college at all, like, if you asked me when I was 13 or 14, I, hands down, said I'm not going to college, like I'm not doing it. So I think my mind always was set on like I'm staying in the area, I'm not going anywhere. But as I began, I only contemplated going to school and going to college. Once I decided I wanted to be a nurse, and so when that kind of dawned on me, I was like I already was planning on being in the area, so I might as well just see what we have in the area. And so I had already been taking some classes at our local community college and it was it would have. Just it was so easy to just continue my education there.
Speaker 2:I also am such a homebody and, don't get me wrong, like I love travel and I love, you know, going different places. But I felt my best self and I felt most comfortable at home and I think I also, you know, I struggled a lot with anxiety and the thought of completely moving away into a place where I don't know anything about, with people who I don't know to be in a hard major. That just seemed like way too much for me to handle and I just love being home until the thought of being away for four years and having it all be new to me was something that I just didn't really want to explore too much. Um, and you know, you guys so graciously allowed me to stay here and so I think I've been able to. I had to just decide, like, what would work best for me and knowing myself and knowing, um, how I study, how I do school, how my mind works, I just knew staying here at home would be the best fit for me, yeah, so you bring up a handful of things in there.
Speaker 1:I wrote down three little notes of things I want to touch on. That I think are just fun conversations and this, this conversation with you and I, you know Olivia kept saying, like what exactly are we going to talk about? And I said, well, we're just going to talk about life, because there's a lot of things within just having a conversation that will come up. That, I think, is great conversation for moms and daughters and just anybody in these times of navigating young adult children. But I want to go back to a couple of things. So Olivia was homeschooled. Actually, let me back. Olivia has done every kind of things. So Olivia was homeschooled. Actually, let me back. Olivia has done every kind of school.
Speaker 1:We started when you were young in a small private Christian school. You then transitioned out of that into the public school and that is when we first started to notice specifically some separation anxiety. In kindergarten it would literally destroy me. You were the kid that just did not want to get out of the car that the principal had to come get you and literally physically remove you out of the car. You spent a lot of time with the principal, helping her do little things and trying to find jobs for you to keep you happy. And the second you would get in my car at the end of the day you would start sobbing, thinking about going back to school the next day, so started to see some just little signs of that separation anxiety then stayed in that setting, in that environment, for a handful of years. Then we moved to a new town. You went back to a Christian school. You were there for, I believe, three or four years, maybe a few more than that.
Speaker 1:I think it was five, five years in a small private Christian school here locally, and although one of our daughters was thriving there, it just we knew it was not the right fit for you. And so you really really begged to come home and homeschool which is funny because I always said I would never homeschool any of my kids, but Olivia is a persistent one. And so after talking and talking and talking in seventh grade, did we pull you in seventh grade, eighth grade, eighth grade. So you finished out your seventh grade year in traditional private school, pulled her out in eighth grade and we did online learning. Talk to us. Okay, we did online learning.
Speaker 1:That was an epic fail. Yes, we both recognize that it was not working. It was too much computer time, there was not enough interaction, it was not going to be a solution long-term. And then we're so grateful that we found an amazing homeschool co-op for you to do for the last four years of high school, or all of your high school, the same one that your brother has been in now. But talk to me a little bit just about that. I don't want to be. This school feels overwhelming to me and why you really wanted to come home and your experience with that homeschooling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, obviously, like you said, started with separation anxiety. I remember in kindergarten I just told the story to somebody last week actually but I remember one day like you would drop me off in my classroom, was kind of near the entrance, and I remember while my teacher wasn't looking, we were doing morning work I ran out of the classroom and out of the school to see if I could still find your car. Like it was a struggle and I remember it so vividly. Just I always wanted to be with you Like always Still do. She's my little puppy, yeah right, so I think it mostly started, yeah, separation anxiety.
Speaker 2:Then, as I got more towards middle school or maybe late elementary and then into middle school I think I got when I got really sick with Lyme disease. I think that just made things worse because I was home for so long that going back to school it was like almost culture shock, like I almost it was way harder again to leave you after being home with you for every single day for so many months. But then I think also I I am a people pleaser to the max and I felt like there was just so much drama and so many issues that I mean there are in any school, but I feel like I always I could never find a solid group of people that I felt comfortable being with. I struggled in school like I did well, but I never, ever enjoyed it. It was like a task for me and something that I had to do, and I found no interest in it.
Speaker 2:I wasn't into sports, so I didn't. You know a lot of people will go to school and get good grades in that, to do well in sports or whatever, and that never interested me. I wasn't in any extracurricular activities, so school just was a task for me really, and it wasn't. I didn't enjoy it, I didn't love it. I had good friends, but I never found like a super solid place in school, and so I homeschooled just seemed like the perfect thing to me. I didn't really think about what it would be like to not have social interaction. That one year I was online and so it just it was just weird.
Speaker 1:It was a little bit isolating but Isolating pre-COVID, before we knew that that would even be a thing.
Speaker 2:Yes, but, yeah, homeschool just seemed picture perfect to me in my head because I love being home so much and I felt like I also work better I don't want to say at my own pace, but slightly in a way of it was exhausting for me to go to school and then come home and have hours of homework and then do it all the next day and I feel like all I did was school and I feel like that was not good for me, not good for my anxiety.
Speaker 2:Not saying that it should be easy by any means, but I didn't do well with the you know, your typical school routine, yeah. And so I think the idea of homeschool and being able to maybe do things at a different pace or to have more time and more flexibility when I did things and, you know, to have more of my day freed up where I could babysit and do other things that I really, really enjoyed and not just be stuck at school and then stuck at home doing homework after school I think that was some of the main reasons I really, truly wanted to be homeschooled.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we did see a huge change in Olivia's demeanor when we decided to bring her home, which makes it all worth it. And I have said over and over when talking to parents about schooling stuff actually just this week was with a handful of people and we were talking about some school stuff and just how that schooling decision can be really difficult for parents and I think that what we have learned through this journey of three kids we've been in every kind of school environment, from public to private, to homeschool, to co-op, to online is that what's right for one kid might not be right for the other. And the other thing that your dad was so great about saying to me as I've, you know, stressed so much over school decisions is you know, when you make a decision for school for that year, it doesn't have to be that I make this decision and now it's what has to happen until they graduate from high school. And I think we put a lot of pressure on ourselves that okay, if we're going to try to homeschool, we're committing to it through the end of high school. Or if we decide we are homeschooling, we want to put our kids in a public school or in a private school. We're committing now that that's what they're doing until they're done. And your dad has always just been so good at saying we need to make a decision for this year for what's right for each one of the kids, and then we'll reevaluate and if that continues to be right, then we'll keep doing that. If it's not, then God knows, and the next right thing will be there. And that's exactly what happened with us.
Speaker 1:We quickly saw that that bringing you home was the right decision. Online learning alone was not the right decision, but that a co-op situation which gave you still a good amount of structure, which really challenged you, which made you work really, really hard probably harder than you were working in your other school situation when you were in private school and just using different parts of your brain that more catered to how you learn and really helped you develop. So I just think that's an important conversation too. Okay, so you mentioned that you didn't want to go to college, so you get into the co-op, which is the right thing for us. If you are local to us in the Rockford area, we are a part of Emmaus Academy, which has been just a blessing upon blessings the families, the education, the community, the culture all of it, just we could not be more grateful. But you did clearly say I mean there, culture all of it, just we could not be more grateful.
Speaker 1:But you did clearly say I mean there was a time, olivia, where I was like, oh shoot, this girl is really. I mean, she's always said I want to be a wife and a mom which is very commendable and you will be amazing at both of those but also trying to help steer your child towards okay, but you have to figure out something in the meantime to be independent. But you have to figure out something in the meantime to be independent, to be able to support yourself. What was it I feel like I have a little bit of an opinion, but I want to hear yours first that finally made you go like, ooh, maybe, maybe I could do nursing Cause I think you've always doubted your ability to go to college and to do hard college level classes. What was it for you that made you finally go? Probably at about right, at about 16? Yeah, maybe I do want to be a nurse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, I think I always thought maybe like it'd be cool to, you know, be in the medical field, but I was like no way. I heard that that is, it's so hard, School is really hard, and I thought I definitely could not do it. But I think there probably were a few things that prompted my decision. It was kind of a quick decision, I feel like, I think, one of them being I knew I wanted to do something with my life that revolves around kids or babies, and so I thought, you know, nursing could accommodate that, while like taking care of them and not just by babysitting them, by helping them when they're sick or helping deliver babies, whatever that may be. I think that kind of prompted my interest. But then I think also I just genuinely love taking care of people and I like making people feel loved and making them feel better. I think I've always been that way. I got home if someone's sick, I want to help, or, you know, if someone has an injury I want to help. I think that kind of played into it. It wasn't really.
Speaker 2:I think some people go into nursing solely for the medical side of things, for the science of it, for you know the critical thinking that's not me, that's I mean, yes, those things are cool but I'm in it for, you know, the face-to-face interaction with the patients, helping them feel better. I think my faith also has prompted that, as like I want to treat people like Jesus would and it's a really perfect picture to help those who are most vulnerable, who are most sick, all those things. So like part of it is like a calling in a way. But honestly, also I have a lot of nurses in the family. My cousin at the time was in nursing school and I remember one Christmas I saw her like doing nursing homework and I was like wait, this looks so cool, it just seems very interesting, very fascinating. And then that kind of prompted my interest and then I decided to get my CNA license to see if I even liked anything health related before I jumped into nursing school. I think kind of those things, but I'm curious what you would say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with all of that. On those terms, I feel like for me specifically and I think we've had a conversation around this in your co-op one of the electives that you were taking was a chemistry class and it was taught by a doctor, a doctor of science, physics I don't know what you would call Dr Kinney, but she was hard. She is a professor at the local college and she teaches a hard class and being a junior and taking that class, you struggled and you struggled and you struggled.
Speaker 1:And I remember at one point reaching out to Dr Kinney and just saying, okay, like what the heck? And she's like, nope, just it's fine. Like right now I think you had a D in the class at the time, oh, really yeah. And she's, it was in the beginning, right when it was like everything was so new. And she's like, no, this is normal. Like yeah, but when? But when it clicks, it will click and then everything will be fine and she'll get a great grade and she'll totally kill it. And so I said, okay, well, I'm trusting the process, I'm trusting you because you're you're the expert in this. And sure enough, it clicked. It clicked, and then when you got it, you your D went to a C, your C went to a B and I believe you ended that. Yeah, I'm not sure it was an A or a B?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was. You got way up there and you understood it and I think it was very. It was in that same timeframe that I think that that class gave you confidence. Pressing you into harder things in high school gave you confidence that well, if, if this teacher is a college professor and.
Speaker 1:I'm basically taking a college class and I did do really well. I think you were afraid of some of those classes, and so I think that gave you a ton of confidence too, that like I am smart, I can do this. And, like she said, the second, that she gave us that inkling of like maybe I want to be a nurse. I think it was like three minutes and I had you signed up as a CNA class, which is a huge plus of homeschooling, right?
Speaker 1:Because had you been in a traditional school setting, it would have been very difficult for you as a 16 year old to immediately enroll in a CNA class. But you were able to go to the community college, take that CNA class, do your clinicals, get certified and start all those prereqs for nursing school. So Olivia graduated high school with the majority. You had about a year's worth of prereqs you had to do when you came out but has just been killing it and now, through a couple of years of figuring out, studying and good habits in this first semester of nursing school, is rocking it and is doing so well.
Speaker 1:Dad and I are constantly saying how proud we are of just how you've evolved and you got I know, your anxiety played into too. We can talk about this a little bit. You can get a lot of anticipatory anxiety, yes, and so the summer or the semester before actually starting nursing school, when you were looking at working a job and going to school, there was a lot of fear and a lot of I don't think I can do it Like. That's just so much. How, how can you talk to parents and to kids that maybe struggle with some of that anxiety in that way about how you've had to process through talking yourself off of the ledge sometimes, about just the way your brain can spiral into man. This feels like more than maybe I can handle.
Speaker 2:My brain never shuts off, ever, and I remember Except for Except for when I'm getting a facial.
Speaker 1:We just figured it out. I sent her for a facial and she called me and she's like mom, that is the first time in my entire life that for 60 minutes my brain did nothing and I'm like well then, you need more facials, yeah.
Speaker 2:I remember one of my cousins too, telling me like if I think, if I had your brain, I would be so exhausted. And I'm like, no, honestly, it feels like sometimes it feels like I'm running a marathon mentally every single day, even if I have nothing going on in my life, nothing new, nothing scary my brain constantly is going over something. I think when I first started having a lot of anxiety besides separation anxiety, um, I had a lot of what if? Anxiety. So I like what if this would happen? What did this happen?
Speaker 2:I remember when we got our jet skis, I was so worried like what if I fall in? What if it goes too fast? What if? Know so many things that I was always going worst case scenario and I was always going to what if this happens? And that was also exhausting.
Speaker 2:And I think one way parents can help their children in that specific area of anxiety is being like okay, talk it through a little bit, cause I'm also an overthinker, so those two combined is also a lot, but talking it through. So I know, okay, if I fall off the jet ski right now, what's going to happen? I have a life jacket on. Someone's going to immediately notice that I'm on the jet ski. You know I'm going to wave my hand so people see me like nothing bad is going to happen. And just knowing that in my mind, knowing that I don't want this to happen, I don't want to fall off, but if I do, here's what's going to happen that, I think, reassured me in a way of knowing I have a plan, because I like to have a plan in my mind. I don't like the unexpected, I don't like something to come out of the blue and I don't know what to do. So I think that probably could have been another reason I wasn't sure about school or nursing is like because or maybe it made me more confident in it is because you know, if something's happening in a nursing field, I've been trained to do it so that I know what I'm doing. It's nothing crazy, crazy unexpected, I guess, but I would say, yeah, that was a really tough part of anxiety for a long time is just always constantly having a worst case scenario mindset.
Speaker 2:And then I think, as I grew up and kind of figured out how to process anxiety, how to, you know, change my mindset in specific ways, how to work through it, I think that's when more of my anticipatory anxiety came along Because my what if? Anxiety kind of fizzled away. I mean, I still have it here and there, but as I've gotten older I realized, like you know, stuff is going to happen. But I, you know I can have control over most of those things. But with anticipatory anxiety, it consumes a lot and I would say it's a pretty daily struggle over.
Speaker 2:It could be the smallest thing or the biggest thing, but yeah, I think, like you said, the semester before, you know, when I got accepted into nursing school, semester before was like just a planning period and getting myself ready to go into what I knew would be a really, really hard, major and kind of kissing. Goodbye my freedom a little bit in life. Not that you can't do fun things while you're at nursing school, because people would always tell me that like your life is over. When you go to nursing school you know if you had friends or not your friends anymore. You're never going to see them. But truly, so far it's like if you can find a balance, you're okay.
Speaker 2:But I think I started to have a lot of anxiety over I can't do it. I am not smart enough to do it. I'm not going to be able to, you know, be motivated enough to keep going through it. I'm going to be exhausted. And I just also thought I wasn't smart enough because I just, I don't know, I never have really done something super, super hard to this degree before for a class.
Speaker 2:But specifically then, knowing that I wanted to get a job, to get this, this grant program, to get free tuition, I knew it was like no brainer. I have to do that. But realizing, you know, I was going to be in school five days a week. That leaves two days on the weekend. One of them I'd have to work a 12 hour shift. I'd never done that before, never worked a 12 hour shift shift in my life when I got my CNA job.
Speaker 2:So the time period of finding a job was so stressful because, first of all, it was hard to find one that would accommodate schooling, but also I did not think I would be able to do it, like I just thought there's no possible way I could do it. I don't even know necessarily why, but that anxiety, I mean there were many tears, cried, there were many frustrated days where I just didn't think it would be possible for me and I don't know, I think, with anticipatory anxiety, you, you almost have to just get through it to it's fine, and I I said the waiting was almost probably worse, Like yeah, it would have been better, Cause as soon as you started the two, you've killed it.
Speaker 2:And it's not easy. It's really hard to work and be in nursing school when I'm only eight weeks in, because I had taken nursing classes before at a different community college and it was so hard and I couldn't fathom doing that again but adding on a job to it. And I think that was what scared me the most. It's because them doing that again but adding on a job to it and I think that was what scared me the most is because I already had some experience in nursing classes and but you know you had to. I just realized, and I'm realizing now like it can be done.
Speaker 2:You just have to manage your time well. And it's something that was kind of new for me too is you know, it's different because once again, I was homeschooled and I that Emmaus and my co-op truly, I think, shaped the person that I am today and how I can do school and just I think who I am is really a lot of it devoted to my high school experience. But I only went to school two days a week for my co-op and so I think, time management yeah, you got to prioritize stuff, but it wasn't like this big task at the time, but I think figuring that out.
Speaker 1:And when you say, went to school two days a week, you only had to leave our house two days a week. You would do your school, obviously here those other days, but it had a little bit more of a lax schedule, and if you hit snooze one or two times too many, there was no huge consequence. We're then moving into something where it's like black and white, like structure upon structure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know you have multiple exams a week and you're going to school from eight to four 30 some days and you come home you have to study till 10. Like just realizing you know it's kind of just your whole schedule of just readjusted. But I think that anxiety started to fizzle away as I did it and I know it's not really helpful, but with inhibitory anxiety and really worrying about the things coming up. You know, sometimes it's just better you have to just jump in the pool to learn how to swim, like and still day-to-day things, like there's still weeks where it's hard and not easy. But I think also you know you're in control of your own emotions and your stuff and if something's stressing you out, once you get the situation, you're in control of deciding how that's going to go.
Speaker 2:And there's so many things I can't think of specific other examples, but my anticipatory anxiety. Or even just going my first day of my job, Like I'm the new person here. What if they're mean to me? What if they think I'm stupid? What if I forget the things that I was, you know, trained on doing? What if I do something wrong with my patient? What if one of them falls? What if you know so many things.
Speaker 2:But once you get to the position and I'm sure everybody has fears for different reasons, but getting to the hospital on the first day it was like no, your brain remembers what you've done and you know you have to just almost be your own hype person, like I had to say. Like Olivia, you, you went through the training and you passed, so you know what you're doing and people are there to help you and if someone's not kind to you, all you can do is be kind back, and so I think you're able to. In situations where you have anxiety and fear, just remind yourself of what you know, and you know you can control your emotions to the best of your ability and that's all you can do, and I think that helps.
Speaker 1:I don't know get through times like that when there's lots of new unknown. So for a parent that's listening that and I think I've shared on the podcast before I can Olivia and I can relate on so much of this. I didn't struggle. I don't ever remember having any anxiety issues at all during my younger years, but was struck hard with postpartum depression with my first baby, really really severe. Came out of nowhere, totally knocked me off of my footing, scared the heck out of me, made me question so many things and I would say it was probably one of the darkest times of my existence and I questioned a lot like gosh why would God, why would you allow this?
Speaker 1:I've always wanted to be a mom. I've always. This is everything I've ever wanted. Why am I so sad? Why am I so afraid? Why am I having all of these horrible thoughts? Why am I so afraid? Why am I having all of these horrible thoughts? And never would I have thought at that time that I would be so grateful 15 years later to have walked that journey because I was able to so understand in a way that I would not have been able to a lot of the things that you were going through, especially when you were a little bit younger, with some depression and anxiety combined, for you to be able to say things to me and me to go.
Speaker 1:I totally understand, like I can remember verbatim what that felt like and being able to process that. And so if you're a mom, you know maybe you've struggled with anxiety and depression on your own and it seems like a curse, and I just want to encourage you that as you navigate through it and as you learn how to handle it, whatever that might mean. And for us it's been a combination of a lot of things, you and I both. At times it's been medication, at times it's been intense therapy with a really amazing, trusted counselor. It's been reciting scripture and filling our house with praise music. It's been walking through those scenarios of if so, then what? Yeah Right, even okay, let's say the worst case scenario thing happens. If so, then what? What do we still know is true? The next day or after that happens?
Speaker 1:How can parents talk to their children? This is something that I had to learn, because I think you feel one way when you're in the depths of your anxiety or depression and then when you get removed from it, you can quickly forget a little bit of how it feels. But when you can get super overwhelmed and we talk through the same scenario over and, over and over and over and I can snap and be like Olivia, come on, get over it, it's fine, you're good, you're whatever, and you'll always say easy for you to say, or your brain doesn't have anxiety right now and I think that's been one of our struggles is having for me having to learn how to communicate to you in a way that has empathy, instead of saying get over it, which I think a lot of people who don't understand anxiety will say get over it, or this is ridiculous or you're being crazy. How can a parent talk to a child that's struggling with anxiety? That will help them maybe be able to process and not shut them down.
Speaker 2:That's a really good question. I think yes, which some of these might not be easy, like I can say to you, like I know we have talked through the same, like maybe our same topic probably hundreds of times might be similar, like the same thing. And what helps me feel better is when you listen and you talk me through it every single time. You know, because with anxiety, like you said too, you already having been through postpartum depression and it's true, already having been through postpartum depression and it's true, it truly is unless you've really experienced depression or anxiety, it's really hard to be able to relate to somebody who has those things. So if your child has it anxiety or depression and you've never had that it can be challenging, I think, to understand what they're feeling. And you know something that they say might be like well, this is really scary, or this seems really serious, or whatever it may be, and you might not know how to handle it. And so I'm, first of all, very thankful that you I've never wished for you to have gone through that, but your experience helped me like tremendously, go through my own and be like I'm not crazy, because I think one thing specifically with anxiety and depression is you kind of feel like you're the only one who's ever thought these things, you're the only one who's ever experienced these things, and you feel like you're kind of a crazy person, like I'm sinning for thinking this or I'm a bad person, or it makes me a bad person. But I think for parents to just reassure their kids like you know, anxiety and depression is so real and feelings are valid I think it's one thing that I help me so much is when you tell me that my feelings are valid. Whether they're crazy or not, they're valid. Everybody has the right to feel how they feel, um, and so I think that helped me a ton, and I'm a big talker and I need to talk things through. So I think, um, for me to say like, hey, this is really causing me to be depressed, or it's causing me to be stressed, or I had this thought, or you know, my brain thought this thing and I don't know what to process about it. To be able to share that, I think was so important, because if you let specific things harbor in your mind, it's going to control you. I think I learned that a lot, and so for my parents to be able to listen to me, I think is a huge thing and to be a safe space to come to. I never felt like you thought I was crazy or that you judged me or big or small. Whatever I came to you with regarding anxiety and depression, it was never. It was never pushed away. You always accepted it and I never, ever felt uncomfortable sharing with you. So I think that's another thing too is just making your kids feel like you can tell them, they can tell you anything, because then they truly will Like, if they feel that they can, they will.
Speaker 2:I think that listening you know being encouraging and, specifically for our family, relying on our faith, I think it's a huge thing. I remember nights where I would have like panic attacks in a way. You'd come in my room and you just start playing worship music and that, like immediately would bring, like this calmness and then praying and you constantly remind me that you know I have no control over tomorrow, but the Lord does. And yes, that's easy to say, I have no control over tomorrow, but the Lord does. And yes, that's easy to say and sometimes hard to fully understand, but for us, specifically for my parents in our Christian home, is relying on our faith and, like you said scriptures and I remember you helped me pick out a ton of Bible verses that applied to don't be anxious all those things that I could read over myself and that you would read over me.
Speaker 2:And I think one thing, specifically, too, that we did was when it got to be like I feel like I couldn't find the good things in life.
Speaker 2:I was just always anxious or worried. You got me this journal and it was a gratitude journal. I think I still have it, but we would write down every day 10 things or more that I was just grateful for, and whether it would be my dog or my bed, or that I got to watch a movie or that I got to see one of my siblings play their sport, whatever it may be, ending the day in things that I was grateful for helped a lot. So I think you were really clever, actually, in coming up with little ways. But yeah, I would say the main thing for parents would just be listening, you know, talking their kids through scenarios and letting them repeat themselves like a broken record, and then, if needed, recommending therapy or whatever it may be, and just helping them feel seen and like they're not broken and all those things. And then, if you are Christian or whatever, to praying for your children, filling their mind with scripture and worship and prayer, then the Lord will work through that and stuff too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. You have a super sweet therapist who is one of my dear friends. So at first it was a little weird for me. I'm like, oh no, she's going to my, to my dear friend, and what are they? What are they saying about me?
Speaker 1:But just knowing that you have a safe person, whether that's a therapist or an adult friend, that somebody feels they can be honest with and I think a really important thing that I had to learn, because I can be a doer and a taskdriven person and sometimes when we live that way, we don't have time or energy for the emotional parts of things it's like, well, I'm sorry you feel that way, get over it. Here's what we're going to be doing. And I think, being able to validate and I'm learning this too with your brother just because he's a guy and they process things differently than us girls he doesn't want me to fix things a lot of times. He needs to be able to say it. You need to be able to say it and instead of me then going into fix it mode, I think learning to say things specifically to you.
Speaker 1:I hear what you're saying and I'm sure that feels extremely scary. I'm sure that feels extremely overwhelming. That feels extremely scary. I'm sure that feels extremely overwhelming. Let's talk about what we could do to process that. Or instead of just saying, well, those are crazy thoughts, or that's never going to happen, or what in the world, why would you even think that? Or why are you being negative, to instead validate.
Speaker 1:I'm sure that feels really heavy, I'm sure that really is scary, and I would imagine if you're sitting with that thought all day, it probably has exhausted you and I'm sorry that that's what's happening in your brain. Now let's try to process through that and I think that's important too for parents is not to dismiss the feeling that that causes, because we've all been there to some extreme right, where you think something and it really scares you or it paralyzes you. So I'm grateful for you being willing even just to talk about this Cause I know for me, I struggled for a long time to talk about my postpartum depression and it is very hereditary, so it runs in families and you have some history of it on both sides of your family and just needing to be really aware that mental issues I don't want mental disorders mental struggles are no different than a physical struggle, a DNA gene of a cancer or, you know of a diabetes.
Speaker 2:These are all things that I say yeah, absolutely I remember you haven't told me that because I felt so broken and so like this should not be happening to me, especially because I was in sixth grade when I truly started to struggle with depression, specifically, and then more anxiety. Because my middle name is Joy, I'm this happy person and I think people would always see me as bubbly and happy and I just feel like I wasn't me and I felt like I had to fix it. But you had to remind me like this is not just just oh, you're having a bad day. This is like a medical problem and so you have depression or you have anxiety. It's no different really than having diabetes or whatever, like there's different ways to deal with it, but it truly is like an actual condition, and so I think, realizing that and learning like I'm not broken, you know, god still loves me the same. You still love me the same. I have to just work through it.
Speaker 2:But I think it can feel so isolating and like you are broken or you. You know you shouldn't be feeling this. It's a bad, it's a bad feeling. Those can be really scary. A reason that a lot of people might not talk about their anxiety more because like they're ashamed of it or I don't know. Whatever it may be, but I think you guys also reassuring me too, that you know it's not my fault. I didn't do this to myself. There's ways that I can get myself out of it in ways, but it is like a medical condition.
Speaker 1:There's ways that you can help yourself not be overcome by it, and still there might be then times where you do all of those things and you still need medical intervention or you need support, and so I just think that's so important. And again, we're not going to get into the nitty gritty of you know, all the people have a lot of different feelings. In our household, we believe that anxiety and depression is a medical problem a lot of times and then we can counter that just like we would do anything else. If one of my kids was having a cancer thing, we would absolutely go do the medical stuff that we needed to do and we would inundate their hearts and their home with scripture and prayer and joy and the homeopathic things as well. You can do them all together, and the homeopathic things as well. You can do them all together.
Speaker 1:It's not black and white and I think just not letting you feel like you had a curse or something that was wrong with you and then acknowledging that we have to be open about talking about this because it is a real struggle. And that was all pre-COVID, olivia. And now when you see how many kids struggle with anxiety and depression post COVID, and with all the social media and all the different things. I feel like I have so many more things I want to talk to you about, so I am going to just make the executive decision. We're just sitting here and I am going to turn this into a two-parter because I want right.
Speaker 1:She said mom, I don't know if I have enough stuff to talk about, but I think this has been a really good conversation, specifically just on that anxiety piece. And then I want to come back in the interview for next week We'll talk more just about joy and how you are so relational, how you have a gift of making people feel so important and supporting them. So let's end this one, olivia, just with any last thoughts that you might have that maybe you would say to. Whether it's a young kid, I know for you we'll keep it very neutral here.
Speaker 1:A lot of this stemmed for you from some really hard relationships Sometimes when there was just some really difficult things that were said and done and friendship, anxiety. Being a people pleaser, I know that plays into it. What would you say to a girl that maybe is in fifth, sixth grade, that's struggling with I don't feel like I have my people. I feel like people are making fun of me. Friendship feels difficult. I'm feeling a little not like myself. I'm a little sad. What would be your encouragement to sixth grade, olivia now, as 20 year old Olivia?
Speaker 2:Oh man, I think, wow, I told you before. All the time, like, looking back on who I was in sixth grade to now, it like blows my mind sometimes, like, oh, like it gets better. I think, oh boy, sorry, I think it's anxiety and depression is so hard, and especially at a young age, and when I look back I'm like, oh my gosh, I was so young, I was so young and I felt so lost and confused. So to younger girls and anybody in general, I guess, guess I would say people probably say this all the time but truly it will get better. It will. And on the days where it feels like it's the darkest place or it's the hardest that you've ever lived, like you have to remind yourself of the good, and you have to.
Speaker 2:For me it was going to the Lord, and I think that might not be helpful to those who don't have that relationship. What spiritual relationship. But I had to, like, beg the Lord, like, please, like, let this stop for me. Like I need, you know, I need this to be over, and so I think I would. Just the advice I would give would be to talk about it with somebody first of all, whether that's a parent, someone that you feel safe with aunt, uncle, older sibling, whatever it may be, just share it, because I think just saying it, like I said, getting the words out helps them to not just take up your whole mindset. So, I think, share it with somebody, share whatever you're feeling, share your anxieties, your fears, your depression, whatever it is, and then be okay, I think, to do what's necessary next, whether that's going to therapy or getting on a medication or stuff of that sense, because me those things sounded daunting, because it seemed like, oh no, I have a real problem if I have to do these things. But I would say medication and therapy are two of the biggest blessings that have helped me to get through a ton. So, being okay with trying things that are new, because it's not fun, it's not know, maybe, what you would have pictured you'd be doing, but I think, talking about it being okay to try something new, talking to somebody trying a medication if needed, and then also, I think, just don't let which is going to sound hard, but don't let your anxiety and your depression become who you are.
Speaker 2:I think it's so important that you acknowledge that those things are real and that it makes up a big part of who you are. But I remember I always had to, like I, my name is Olivia and it's not my name's Olivia, and I have anxiety. I had to remind myself that I feel like some days, all I could think about was anxiety, all I could think about was depression and so just trying to find things, maybe that it was something that you love to do. Remember we would be like okay to find things. Maybe that it was something that you love to do. Remember we would be like, okay, one day a week, do something that you love, paint something, go to the thrift store, get a coffee, something that brings you so much joy. To remind you like, like stuff is hard, but let's do this fun thing. I think that helped me so much. Or this weekend we're gonna do this, or whatever. So let yourself still be who you are and have an identity outside of these things, because it feels like it takes up a lot of your mindset and a lot of your time, but it doesn't make you who you are. So, continuing to be the person that you are, doing things that you love, play the sport that you love, you know, do the hobby that you love, be with the people that you love and don't isolate, don't isolate, do not isolate, Absolutely. Get outside.
Speaker 2:I remember we would take our conversations, our really hard ones, and just go on a walk and we'd both be crying, probably look crazy outside our neighbor's windows.
Speaker 2:But go outside, do something that you love and just be around people who love you.
Speaker 2:And I also would say like this is one thing that I think people say a lot but you're not alone, you're not not normal, you are not broken, you're not messed up.
Speaker 2:I remember we talked about that a ton too, like my biggest challenge might be something different for somebody else. Their biggest challenge might be something huge, or my biggest challenge is anxiety, and so realizing that we're all going to experience something really hard in our lives and the Lord is going to get us through it, and my, my challenge is anxiety, but he won't give you more than you can handle too. And so I think, resting in that, resting in the peace that you know the Lord would carry me through and he truly has there's still days where it feels really, really hard. And but how many years ago? What's eight years? But how many years ago? What eight years? I've learned so much in those last eight years that have helped me to regulate those thoughts, regulate those emotions. Rest in the fact that it will get better. You'll look back and be like oh my gosh, like that was crazy that I went through that and I'm doing so much better now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then now it's a part of your life, but you've learned how to manage it and it's not the main part of your life.
Speaker 1:It's a small fraction of just learning and I think 12 year old Olivia would be super proud of 20 year old Olivia and all that she's doing. So we're so proud of you. So thank you for being willing to share that stuff. I know that's vulnerable and it can be hard and I think a lot of people do keep it bottled up and I think parents too are afraid to talk about it because they're afraid Maybe I did something that's causing my child to have this anxiety and I'm just really proud of you. I'm proud of how you navigated through it and have remained super positive.
Speaker 1:One of my favorites is Olivia has coined snuggle o'clock. It's snuggle o'clock and unfortunately, the older they get, the later that hour gets to be snuggle o'clock and unfortunately, the older they get, the later that hour gets to be. But snuggle o'clock means she's coming in and she's got stuff to talk about and it's an offloading, a decompression conversation smack dab in between her mom and her dad in their bed in the late nights, the late night hours. But that's part of your way of managing is being able to talk it through, have somebody close by, get that little physical touch and reassurance that you're doing great and it gives you what you need to go out into the next day to do it all over again. So this has been fun and we're going to talk about a lot lighter stuff here as we continue.
Speaker 1:But, olivia, I love you so much, we're so proud of you and we're glad that you're home and that we get this time with you as you get your training to become what I believe will be one of the world's very best pediatric nurses on the planet. So every mama that's ever had a kid in the hospital knows what a difference a killer nurse makes, and you will be that to so many parents. So thanks for being here with me today.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. I love you, I love you.
Speaker 1:All right, friends. Well, we're going to wrap it up there and come back with some more to this conversation, because there's a lot more I want you to hear from Olivia on about just the way she loves people. Fostering relationships with her siblings is one of her specialty being a cheerleader for all and so we're just going to continue this, because this is what I know the listeners want. There's so many moms that are navigating different stages, and to have people that are in those stages be able to have this conversation with us is so awesome. So thanks for being here this week. Friends, until next week, take care.